April 14, 2022

How Your Living Space Affects Your Well-Being

Show Notes

On this episode, Chuck Gaidica is joined by Marissa Jarrett, onsite well-being coordinator for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. Together, they discuss the impact our living space has on our well-being.

In this episode of A Healthier Michigan Podcast, we explore:

    • How our living space can affect our mood
    • Changes we can make that are within our control
    • Recommendations on how to approach making changes successfully

To get more well-being content from Marissa, check out the Blue Cross Virtual Well-Being webinars here.

Transcript

Chuck Gaidica:
This is A Healthier Michigan Podcast episode 104. Coming up, we discuss the impact of our living space and how it affects our well-being.

Chuck Gaidica:
Welcome to A Healthier Michigan Podcast, the podcast dedicated to navigating how we can improve our health and well-being through small, healthy habits we can start implementing right now. I’m your host, Chuck Gaidica and every other week, we’ll sit down with a certified expert to discuss topics that cover nutrition, fitness, and much more. And on this episode, we are diving deeper into some of the impacts our living environments can have on our well-being and what we can do to improve upon it. So with us today is well-being coordinator for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, Marissa Jarrett. Hey, Marissa.

Marissa Jarrett:
Good morning, Chuck, how are you?

Chuck Gaidica:
I’m doing well. Thank you. And this is going to be a great episode because I’ve got my little pile of clutter, chaotic clutter, and then I’m trying to declutter other stuff. So you’re going to guide us through this, but you’ve got a rich background in fitness, personal training, body building, personal development along with well-being and then you’ve got the whole, let’s go outside and cycle and you’re an archer and you’ve got, you still have a yak?

Marissa Jarrett:
We do. We have three actually.

Chuck Gaidica:
Holy cow. So you’ve got animals. So you’re handling that part that we’ve talked about in various episodes. Getting outdoors, soaking in, kind of forest bathing, that kind of stuff. But I wanted to focus today on how we can improve our well-being as we start to think about mindfulness, exercising, meditation, this is something different. For everybody who’s listening? What if we started expanding the thinking to include the impact our living spaces have on our well-being? So let’s say right now, wherever people are could be an office, could be a shared room in a studio apartment, a house, whatever space you call your own. What if you could strive to change that space, maybe a little where you can then recharge your batteries, reflect have some quiet times. So guide us through this. What would we start to think about, Marissa, to bring extraordinary benefits to our lives and our well-being by thinking about our indoor living space?

Marissa Jarrett:
Chuck, there’s so many different things that we can expand on and hopefully we can get through the majority of them in this session if not, there’s always part two. But I think our well-being is impacted by a number of things. One of them Chuck, would be things like color, things that we can sense, that we smell, we hear, we see, textures, things like that. All of this has an impact on our mood, how we sleep, if we can focus, our ability to learn, how we communicate with others and our attitude. So take color, for example. Color can affect our mood, our behavior and our stress. And they say that there’s this relationship between color and our emotional well-being that is magnified in our homes and in our offices. So it would make sense to paint, soothing and relaxing colors in the rooms where we tend to spend the most amount of our time.

Marissa Jarrett:
For some people, it could be their kitchen, it could be their living room, their bedroom, or if you’re working from home, maybe your home office. So taking maybe what would be a dark room and brightening it up with colors, with opening up your blinds, allows you to experience greater happiness, satisfaction, and you might even find you’re more productive. So you’ve got warm colors like red, yellow, and orange. These can spark a variety of emotions ranging from comfort and warmth to hostility and anger where colors like green, blue, and purple often make us feel calmer, more relaxed.

Chuck Gaidica:
It’s funny you say this. Unrelated to what we’re talking about last night, I’m online looking at some of the major paint companies for exterior paint choices which you don’t typically think of calming down the look of your house. But while I’m on there, I’m seeing now they’ve caught the drift. They’ve got palettes that are called calm. It’s the lighter celery green, it’s the lighter egg shell blue. It’s nothing new. We’ve all seen these colors or even painted them. But it’s kind of interesting that they’re branding them under palette names that have this real calmness to them.

Marissa Jarrett:
Yeah. Isn’t that interesting?

Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah.

Marissa Jarrett:
It really does have an effect on how we feel. I know I feel differently in certain rooms that are painted certain colors or may or may not have enough light in them. So it’s an interesting concept on how we can feel. And here in Michigan, we’re just coming out of where the days are starting to get a little bit longer and we’re getting a little bit more sunshine during the day. But during those winter months, we tend to stay indoors, we keep the blinds closed and that can really start to wear on our attitude. We might not be as lively, as energetic, people experience depression. So there’s a lot of things to consider when it comes to how we spend our time in our home.

Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Many of us, I know one of our kids, families, they have a hundred year old home, so you can find houses or even workspaces that have darker trim, the older wood look and that may be appropriate for your thing, but just by Googling away last night, I’m seeing a ton of ideas. So I just want to encourage everybody, you don’t have to be an interior decorator and get it to figure out what works. Because you can find a picture like within less than five minutes and you’re like, “Oh, I like that one. That’s the look I’m going for, I want my house to look like an Apple store.” And you can do it.

Marissa Jarrett:
Yeah. Some of us like to have a lot of things around us, other people may prefer to have a more minimalistic decorum. There’s that Marie Kondo, you can follow the whole decluttering and reorganizing your home and going through room to room, starting with your clothes and working down to things that are a little bit more meaningful. Because those might be a little bit more difficult to part with. But we’ve all talked about it before and I’m a big thing on doing things and finding joy. So it’s going through your home and finding those things. Is this meaningful to me? Does it bring me joy? Does it make me happy that I’m going to keep it? And I’m going to place it here where I can see it all the time.

Marissa Jarrett:
And then if not, then maybe it’s something, you give away with gratitude to somebody else or you can find a nice pretty box and put it in a storage closet somewhere where it’s out of the way. And maybe during another time it’ll be meaningful to you or you pass it on to somebody if it’s something that you’ve had in the family for a long time. But talking about those older homes, the layout of your home is another way that our well-being can be impacted. And the home that I grew room up in, everything was segmented. You had a kitchen with four walls, you had a living room with four walls and now you walk in and these homes are just so spacious and expansive. Some of them have soaring ceilings, which to some people, they may really like that. To other people it could cause them a lot of stress and anxiety. But having these open rooms, they say, can help make you feel more creative and can reduce the anxiety of feeling closed in and can enhance your mood.

Marissa Jarrett:
So think about that and you may not have the ability to change those things depending on if you’re in one of those older homes, which have a lot of character, but you can take into a consideration things like paint color, opening up your windows, maybe it’s pulling up carpeting and replacing it with more natural elements like putting in a wood floor. If you’re an artist, hang your art on the walls, make it your home. Our home should be someplace where we come home to and we feel safe and we feel comfortable. So it’s bringing that element into your home so you can feel that way.

Chuck Gaidica:
The place we live in now, Susan and I, we moved in and it had one of those picture window type things that kind of divides the kitchen from the dining family room space. And it fell cramped. So I knew somebody who was a structural engineer, I said, “Can you come over?” We climbed in the attic. I said, “Can I knock that wall out?” He said, “Absolutely. Your joists are running this way. You’re fine.” I had a sledgehammer. He said, “I’ve got a sawzall.” Can I tell you how much well-being came from cutting that down and me swinging the sledge and taking that down? And it looks great, but it opened up the space. And to your point, it’s contextual. Not everybody would want to do that, but for us it just opened up everything because we have a big family and it just made us feel like we own it now. We did it and boy, did I feel good with the sledge? I’ll tell you it was great.

Marissa Jarrett:
Right there. Something liberating about that.

Chuck Gaidica:
Yes. There was. Who gets to take down walls?

Marissa Jarrett:
Right. Exactly. And then some other things that you want to take into consideration, your homes can be very sensory. So harsh lighting and loud noises, might impede our anxiety or lead to our anxiety or increase our agitation, even certain fragrances. So consider things that you bring into your home, open up those windows, bring in flowers that have fragrance like lavender, which promote better sleep. Different smells can trigger different emotions. Think about when you were little and you walked into grandma’s house and she was baking oatmeal cookies or chocolate chip cookies and how the feelings that come from that. So when you ever smell chocolate chip cookies, you might be reminded of grandma’s house. Or maybe it’s the scent on a loved one’s shirt.

Marissa Jarrett:
When you smell that smell again your memory goes back to those times in your life. But we may not even consciously recognize the effects that our environment is having on us. And you were talking about decluttering earlier. Messy spaces cause a lot of people, anxiety and stress. I know it does for me, especially, and there’s been a number of studies that have connected disorganization and clutter to confusion and being overwhelmed and having difficulties focusing on certain tasks. And they’ve even shown too, Chuck that people with messy homes tend to have higher levels of cortisol, which causes additional anxiety and stress in the body.

Marissa Jarrett:
And when we have all this visual clutter, our brain has to process all these things and it can only process so much of at one time and this can leave us feeling drained and overwhelmed. I know I don’t function well in a disorganized home. I prefer everything to be neat and tidy, everything has a place, but sometimes this isn’t always easy. Especially when you live with a partner who does not share your enthusiasm for a neat and tidy home.

Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah.

Marissa Jarrett:
Yeah. And I’ve shared these concerns with my husband. And I came home one day and the kitchen counter is a drop off. Everything lands on our kitchen counter for him. And I came home-

Chuck Gaidica:
Yours too?

Marissa Jarrett:
Yes. And I came home one day and he wasn’t here, but he had cleaned the entire kitchen and I specifically took a picture of the spot where he drops everything and I send it to him and I said, “You don’t know how happy this makes me feel right now.” And it just really did it. I can’t go to bed at night unless my kitchen is clean and dishes are put away and things like that. And that’s just me, but it’s not always easy. So sometimes you just have to take a breath and step back and control what you can control and tackle other things another day.

Chuck Gaidica:
But you said so much there, it seems that it’s just logical that if you have a cluttered desktop, kitchen counter, house, that decluttering leads to less clutter in your mind. It just seems logical, but yet I suspect for many that just the idea of what to tackle first, because they’ve just kind of kicked the can down the road so many times it just now has gotten to the point of it’s daunting. It’s where do I begin? What do I do? But that’s why the phrase spring cleaning was developed. Here we go.

Marissa Jarrett:
Exactly.

Chuck Gaidica:
This is the time, right?

Marissa Jarrett:
This is the time. This is the time to start. And I would think start with your smallest room first. Before tackling the bigger ones, start with your smallest room, because then once it’s done, you’re going to this feeling of accomplishment. And then you’re going to feel really good and motivated, then move on to the next room. Some people may want to tackle the biggest project first. I know for me, I live with, I’ve got two Bernese Mountain dogs and they shed light crazy. Some days it looks like the Wild West over here. And when I walk through my family room, I’ve got a big area rug and it’s just like, oh. I look at it and it’s just like, I got to clean my house.

Marissa Jarrett:
then I’ll go get my vacuum. I’ll vacuum my rug. My rug looks great now and it’s like, “Okay, good. I’m done. My house looks clean.” I haven’t cleaned my house, but just vacuuming up that dog hair, made a big difference in the way the room looked to me and I felt better. And then that was all maybe I tackled that day and went on to something else. So, start with the small things and then you can gradually move up to those bigger things. And then try and make it a habit to put things away once you’ve cleaned that room. And if you can find organizational spaces where you can put things, where everything has a place, then you get in that habit. And then it’ll stay neater, stay tidier. And then you’re not feeling so overwhelmed when you walk into those rooms.

Chuck Gaidica:
It seems to me, too, because of course I’ve been trained by my wife, Susan, but it seems to me that if you were to just look at the time and productivity issues involved in this, for instance, filling up a sink with dishes and cluttering until you go, “Oh my gosh, it’s overflowing and I don’t even have a fork.” Instead of putting it right into the dishwasher or washing it right away. The time spent triple handling all this stuff is just not productive. And that probably leads to some stressors in your mind too.

Marissa Jarrett:
For sure. I do that with my husband: putting something in the sink and I’m like, “Why couldn’t it just go right into the dishwasher? I emptied it,” put it in the dishwasher, because now it’s going in the sink, he’s handling it then I’m handling it and then either him or I will eventually put everything into the dishwasher. But I was telling you before we started, we just finished bottling all our maple syrup yesterday. So my kitchen here is a disaster right now and it’s taking me every time I walk out of my office, it’s like, “Take a breath. Don’t look at it when he gets home, he’s going to clean it.” But yeah. In my office, I’ve got a big window and that’s another thing. Open up your blinds, let that natural sunlight come in because that can really help lift your spirits and reduce any depressed feelings and it can leave you feeling refreshed.

Marissa Jarrett:
So take advantage of any natural light that you have in your home. Because not getting enough sunlight can help reduce our energy levels and getting too much artificial light too may have a negative influence on our mental health. In fact, we put new lighting in my office here. It was a little dimer, a little darker. And I said, “I think I need more light. I’m getting some light from my window, but there’s still just some days I feel like I’m getting a headache being in my office and whatnot.” So he changed my lights this week for me. And now I feel like I’m on the sun. It’s so bright.

Chuck Gaidica:
Oh, that’s great. But there have been studies before that talk about fluorescent lights, not just for us as adults, but for our kids too, trying to study, if you’re saying, “Hey, head to the basement and go in that little space over there next to the washer and dryer.” Well, that may not be the best space for the way we feel and how it all works out. So I’m with you. I think that’s highly impactful.

Chuck Gaidica:
You also mentioned the sensory part. I have so many great women in my life going back to my grandmother who helped raise me. She loved lilacs and while she’s been gone for many years, when we moved into the same space where I knocked down the wall with the sledge, I planted lilac bushes on purpose because every spring I cut those and bring them in. And not only are they a great addition to the space period because of the aroma, every time I smell them inside or outside my house, I think of my grandmother. And it’s an immediate trigger that’s a positive thing for me.

Marissa Jarrett:
It is absolutely. And that’s just something small that you can do when you can’t change anything else. Just having that trigger, like you said, is really uplifting.

Chuck Gaidica:
So you’ve talked a lot about making changes. And again we could probably go for many episodes, but what shouldn’t we focus on? Is there a bottom of the list or something, how would you look at that where maybe we should not focus on certain things? And then there are things we can and focus on. You’ve talked a lot about those.

Marissa Jarrett:
Yeah. With anything, focus on the things that we can control. Organizing your space, maybe changing the lighting, changing paint colors. But for some people who aren’t in a position to swing a sledgehammer and open up a room.

Chuck Gaidica:
It’s not hard. Oh, it’s great.

Marissa Jarrett:
Maybe it’s taking a look at what you have in that space. Do you need to have two couches, two chairs and tables. Maybe you can rearrange your space by removing some of that furniture. If you have hardwood floors, maybe putting an area rug down in between bringing in different colors and textures and patterns. So you don’t necessarily have to do a whole major remodel, but you could change the way that room functions by rearranging furniture, maybe removing some furniture can make the way the ergonomics of the room work for you, can help you feel more relaxed.

Marissa Jarrett:
If we’re talking about neighborhoods, maybe we live in a loud neighborhood and we can’t control, we have no control over what’s happening outside: airplanes flying over, trains going by, traffic or whatnot. So maybe you can plant some bushes to reduce some noise outside, hang some art on your wall, or consider getting a sound machine or playing some soothing music that’ll kind of help drowned those noises out.

Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Those are good suggestions. And I think your idea and we’re back to the, what can you tackle that you can actually achieve? it’s almost like smart goals. Why would you take down a wall if you really have no plan and you can’t do the plaster work, the dry wall after? So it may sound good until you look up and go, “Holy cow, look what I just did. I put a big hole in the ceiling.” So that’s part of this too. Somehow whether you’re a planner or not making something achievable, because at the end of the day, if you get a win followed by another win and you keep that trend going, that alone can influence how you feel.

Marissa Jarrett:
Sure. Absolutely. And then maybe reframing your situation. Maybe you live with somebody and try and look at the positive side of it. They might be messy, they might be loud, but you know what? You’re not living alone. Maybe they share the same shoe size you do, and you get to share shoes. Try to reframe your focus about your situation. Maybe your home is small, but maybe you have a beautiful large backyard. So, even think of the aesthetics outside, curb appeal, how do you feel when you pull up in your driveway? Is your lawn landscaped, do you have hanging flowers? Summer’s coming, so are you going to put out flowers and hanging baskets? Do you have a little nook in your yard that you can kind of create where it’s private someplace to go sit during the summer and read a book? So it’s not just what’s happening inside our homes too. It’s everything around us that can affect our well-being.

Chuck Gaidica:
No, I like that whole idea because curb appeal, I think it’s diminished sometimes. And you’re also talking about being grateful, the idea of inserting gratitude into this whole process, because if you pull up and you think, oh, I’ve got a small house, well then you can also think the opposite. Well, I’ve got a smaller lawn, it only takes me 15 minutes to mow it. I mean, there’s an up side, right?

Marissa Jarrett:
There is. Certainly yes.

Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. I only need one hanging planter I don’t need 10. There’s the economics of it and that impact of doing things in small little explosions, if you will, where they really all work, it just seems like that’s another one of those wins and being grateful for what you have and just making it the best it can be for you.

Marissa Jarrett:
Absolutely. Yeah. And bringing nature into your home, Chuck, they’ve done a lot of studies on how nature can reduce our stress and reduce anger and fear and induce all kinds of pleasant feelings. So again, going back to, if you have a home and you’ve got a beautiful tree out front or outback opening up your windows, so you have that view. If you work from home, maybe put your desk by a window so you can look out at that green landscape. And if not, then consider bringing in plants. Bring plants into your house, whether they’re real or artificial, there’s still a lot of benefits from looking at plants and having them in the room.

Marissa Jarrett:
They talk about how having fish and staring at fish is very relaxing. So people who they’ve done studies, people who live near the water tend to be more relaxed, but not all of us have the luxury to live on the water. So, just having maybe a bowl with some fish or if you’re a little bit more elaborate one on aquarium, something like that can really add to the ambience of your home and something to help you relax when you come back from a long work day.

Chuck Gaidica:
And moving water, that sound, you don’t have to live near a babbling brook or creek, I know you’ve got acreage, but you can get a little bowl-type fountain. You can find them on the internet or you can go to your local garden store and they’re not the cheapest things around, but they’re not crazy expensive. And to have a little gurgling water right outside your back door, on the patio, I’m telling you, it makes a world of difference. You’ll think you’re somewhere else.

Marissa Jarrett:
It does. It sure can. I know in the summer when my window was open, I can hear the little artificial pond we have right here out in front. And it’s just really relaxing. You hear the water fall in there. And while we’re on the subject of noise, all that being good, there is noise that can bother us. Think, do you have a dripping faucet? Is your refrigerator constantly humming? I’ll tell you for years, we had a smoke detector. We had taken all the batteries out and we still had this one that it would just still beep and beep and beep. We just became immune to it and we would forget about it until somebody would come over and say, “Do you have to replace the batteries in your smoke detector?” And they were wired into the house and I don’t know the whole logistics of it, but it wasn’t until these last two years working from home, that wow, that really bothered me. I noticed it all the time now.

Marissa Jarrett:
And then if I would wake up in the middle of the night, not because of that, but for another reason, but then I would hear it. So then that’s all I would hear. So finally about maybe a year ago, I said, “Just take it down. We’ll replace them all later.” And I can’t tell you how much of a difference not hearing that beep all day long, every 35 seconds made. But yeah, for a while it was just really wearing on me. Sometimes those can be an easy fix: dripping faucet, a humming fridge, tackle them as soon as you hear them before they turn into something major. That dripping faucet could be something a little bit more drastic down the lines. So if you have something like that, don’t let it go. Take care of it right away.

Chuck Gaidica:
And I think we’ve all come to find in different families, worked in different ways, you have a spouse, that’s maybe the one you turn to for those kinds of repairs and they become a procrastinator. And I just encourage people, if you don’t know how to use the sledgehammer and the tools, you can always have the checkbook in your tool box to cure some of this. Not like you’re going to go crazy. But sometimes you just have to say, “This is beyond my scope of capability. I’m not a plumber. I’m not an electrician.” Well, you got a guy. I mean, you can find somebody if you need to. So you don’t have to go crazy about it, but you can also find some help if you need it. Or the neighbor who’s handy with a sledge, just call me, I’ll come knock something down for you.

Marissa Jarrett:
Exactly. Yeah. Turn to your sphere of influence. Somebody you know can probably fix that light switch or fix that drippy faucet, even go on YouTube. I know a lot of people who watch YouTube videos, they’re like, “Guess what I did last night? I replaced my toilet, I watched a video.”

Chuck Gaidica:
Sure.

Marissa Jarrett:
So there’s a lot of people that have good information out there that they can share. And if you have the time and you’re inclined to, definitely you don’t have to write a check, you can fix it yourself, for sure.

Chuck Gaidica:
So, I know you’ve dropped in pearls of wisdom of things you’ve done. Vacuuming the carpet and opening your, looking out your window, changing your light. Is there any example what changes you’ve made in practice in your own life that you feel had a high impact or something that comes to top of mind that you’ve done and boom, man, what a success?

Marissa Jarrett:
Yeah. Two and a half years ago, I redid my home den. At the time I wasn’t working from home, I painted it a very dark jewel color. I think it was actually called kalamata olive. So it was this dark burgundy. Well then, but when I came home, it was literally someplace to drop off my work stuff. Maybe I would check an email, maybe I would do my bills and then I would leave or I would come and sit in here and take a phone call. Well, when we started working from home all the time, it became very draining on me. I had no energy, it really bothered me. And I said to my husband, I’m like, “I know it’s only been a year, but we need to repaint my office again.” So there he was, it took him five coats of paint after two coats of kills to cover the dark walls. Yes. He was a trooper. Let me tell you.

Chuck Gaidica:
Two coats of kills. That’s the primer stuff. That must have been really deep colored paint.

Marissa Jarrett:
It was. And the paint we put on after the kills had primer in it. But he did it for me and it’s this beautiful, soft blue. And I tell you what? It makes a world of a difference. It is a room that I look forward to coming into every day. And yeah, it just really had a big impact on how I feel being in my office eight, nine hours a day. So it’s bright, it’s cheery. I feel good.

Chuck Gaidica:
And think of the impact for the amount of money. So I know you guys are doing the labor, I get that part. So that’s kind of free 0.99. But when you look at writing a check for three gallons of paint or whatever it turned out to be, and you think for a hundred bucks, can I change the way I feel in this room for a long time? And I think most people would say, “Yeah, let’s go. I would love to do that.”

Marissa Jarrett:
And if it’s not paint, it could be putting in a pretty area rug or colorful throw pillows, or maybe a really pretty Afghan that you drape over the back of your couch or a chair. Or like you said, bringing in lilacs or lavender and decorating with flowers, adding some maybe a diffuser, or some aroma therapy. I’d be careful with some sense that you bring in, because people could be sensitive to scents. They could cause allergies and maybe allergic reactions so you want to make sure it’s something that you’re comfortable with of course. I don’t know why you would bring something in you didn’t like to smell anyway. But those are all little things that you can do as well.

Chuck Gaidica:
So as we wrap it up here, you’ve covered a lot of territory. What are the standouts for you? What are the takeaways we can leave for everybody if they’re just trying to take these baby steps and move forward and bring more well-being to their spaces.

Marissa Jarrett:
Chuck, I would say create a home that you’re comfortable living in, carve out a space where you can feel relaxed. Maybe it’s a large room like your bedroom, or maybe it’s a cozy corner somewhere like you mentioned down in your basement that you created. Maybe, if it’s not changing the paint color, maybe you’re adding a floor lamp or adding some accent pieces which can help improve your mood. Not only do you want to consider how you feel in each room, but consider how you use the room. This might even determine how you might furnish it or decorate it or keep the lighting and keep meaningful pieces in sight. Let in as much natural light as you can so you can enjoy the outdoors and benefit from the sunlight and just when it comes to decluttering, like you said, it’s spring, perfect time to take assessment of what’s in your home, but start small. Start one room at a time.

Chuck Gaidica:
And I think there’s a lot of freedom in so much of what you’re saying, even if you’re donating the things that are not those special pieces, once they’re gone, you actually made a couple moves in that direction, you just feel like some weight has come off your shoulder. So I think it’s all really great advice.

Marissa Jarrett:
Thank you.

Chuck Gaidica:
Well, Marisa, thank you for being with us. Marissa Jarrett, who is a well-being Coordinator for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. Always good to have you on. Thanks.

Marissa Jarrett:
Well thank you for having me, Chuck. Have a great day.

Chuck Gaidica:
You too sure thing. And thanks for listening to A Healthier Michigan Podcast. We’re glad you were here. It’s brought to you by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. If you like our show and you want to know more, check us out online at ahealthiermichigan.org/podcast. You can leave us reviews or ratings on Apple Podcast or Stitcher. You can get new episodes on your smartphone or tablet. Old episode. What we’re up to 104 now. So you can get a lot of episodes that’ll help you as you’re going for your walk or trying to feng shui yourself through life. Be sure to subscribe to us on Apple Podcast, Spotify or your favorite podcast app. I’m Chuck Gaidica, be well.