How to Reduce Your Carbon Footprint with Food
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About the Show
On this episode, Chuck Gaidica is joined by Shanthi Appelö, registered dietitian for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. Together, they discuss the impact our food can have on our carbon footprint and ways we can reduce it.
In this episode of A Healthier Michigan Podcast, we explore:
- What carbon footprint is and how it relates to our food
- Sustainable eating - the benefits and barriers of it
- Examples of sustainable foods
Transcript
Chuck Gaidica:
Hi, everyone. Chuck here. Before we get into today's episode, I want to let you know that we recently launched our newly refreshed site over at A Healthier Michigan. You can find the podcast and other health related content at ahealthiermichigan.org. Now, to this episode.
Hi, everyone. Chuck here. Before we get into today's episode, I want to let you know that we recently launched our newly refreshed site over at A Healthier Michigan. You can find the podcast and other health related content at ahealthiermichigan.org. Now, to this episode.
Can our food impact our environment? This is A Healthier Michigan Podcast episode 140. Coming up, we discuss ways we can reduce our carbon footprint through our food.
Welcome to A Healthier Michigan Podcast. It's a podcast that's dedicated to navigating how we can all improve our health and wellbeing through small healthy habits that we can start implementing right now. I'm your host, Chuck Gaidica, and every other week we'll sit down with a certified expert to discuss topics that cover nutrition and fitness and a lot more. On this episode, we're diving into the impact that our food can have on our environment, not necessarily vice versa. With me today is registered dietician for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, Shanthi Appelö. Hello, Shanthi.
Shanthi Appelö:
Hello. Thanks for having me.
Chuck Gaidica:
Oh, good to have you back. This is an interesting topic, and I know it's one that you think about a lot. In recent years, there's been this focus on the impact that various sources from energy to the car that we drive and all kinds of things impact our environment. But even food has been said to have an impact. If we want to sustainably reduce the effects of our carbon footprint, our impact on the environment, how do we go about this relative to food?
Shanthi Appelö:
I think the first thing to understand here is that there are so many different steps from our food being grown to it hitting our plate. Basically, us as humans do a lot of different things that produce these greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide, methane. As a result, these gases trap the sun's heat. Now, when we think about food, it is grown. It is then processed. It is transported. It is distributed. It's prepared. It's then consumed. And then unfortunately, a lot of it's wasted.
There are so many different steps in food production that then lead to these greenhouse gases. For example, just the production itself is 68% of food emissions and then the transportation is 5%. You can understand how different processes have a different impact. According to the United Nations, a third of all human caused greenhouse gases are linked to food.
Chuck Gaidica:
That includes everything, transportation, packaging, I mean, machines that have to be built to run that stuff, right? I mean, it's everything.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. Everything is about one-third of all the greenhouse gas emissions that's related to food. Then we think about, well, we eat food every day, and so what can we do on an individual level? I think some of the things that we have to understand first is how different foods impact the environment. For example, the biggest piece of our greenhouse gas emissions related to food are going to actually be agriculture and land use. For example, beef, meat in general, so red meat is going to have the biggest greenhouse gas emissions when we compare them to other foods.
For example, we're maybe comparing them to nuts, we're comparing them to chicken, things like that. First of all, just the fact that cattle has to feed off of things and then digest it, that can produce methane like their byproducts. We use fertilizers whenever we are growing crops for the beef to then feed off of, and that uses nitrous oxide, which can then produce greenhouse gas emissions. And then there's a lot of other things like when you're burning the crop residues and a lot of things that I think are difficult to wrap our head around. But anyways, when it comes down to it, certain foods do have this greater impact.
Chuck Gaidica:
And yet, I mean, we have to point out that this isn't an anti-beef or anti-anything. We're trying to impart some interesting information. Because if transportation, if some of this other production stuff that's tied to free-range, versus free-range, where we literally can drive somewhere right now and go get tomatoes or we can actually walk to a farmer's market and get them, we actually have the ability to cut down on some of the stuff that contributes to the process, right?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, and actually food waste. I think that is one of the biggest things that we can do in our own households. It's interesting because we understand that there's so much of our food that we buy. We have all these great ideas. We go to the store, we buy all these foods, and then it sits in our fridge and it goes to waste. It's really sad that that happens. But food waste across the globe, that's 8% of all greenhouse gas emissions.
If we can think about ways to just cut down on waste, that's huge. It's interesting because we may not understand how food waste relates to the equation, but basically whenever we dispose of foods, it goes to landfills and then it sits there in rots and it produces methane, which is a greenhouse gas. In that way, it can impact our carbon footprint.
Chuck Gaidica:
It seems like even this time of the year as we're heading into fall, there's still lots of great harvest that are coming. This notion of getting involved in something as simple as freezing forward. I mean, my brother grows crazy amounts of blueberries and now he's getting a crazy crop of peaches. Well, they're already freezing 10 pound bags of stuff just to think about the next winter, whatever the season is they want to open it up and make whatever they're going to make.
I think for me personally, that's been a big eyeopener for cutting back on waste. When something is in harvest, it's actually in season and I like it. Let's get it and let's figure out a way to keep it so that I can open up something and use it in the middle of February.
Shanthi Appelö:
There are a lot of things that we can think of too that are just small. For example, when we go to the grocery store or we go to the farmer's market and we buy the ugly produce because a lot of people don't want to eat the ugly produce, and then it goes to waste.
Chuck Gaidica:
You mean an apple with a scar on it, right?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. You can do things like that. And then meal prepping can be a huge piece of this. You have a meal plan. You go grocery shop based on that meal plan, and you then execute based on that meal plan so that you are using all your ingredients. I think too, like you were saying, just freezing ahead, you are paying attention to what's in your pantry, what's in your fridge. You're noticing, okay, this is starting to go bad. Either I'm going to use it or I'm going to go ahead and freeze it now, because in five days it'll be too late, or even maybe tomorrow it'll be too late.
Just thinking about things like that. One of my favorite tips for herbs, I love buying herbs, I grow a few herbs, but they go bad pretty quickly once you've picked them. One of the things that I like to do is put them all in a freezer bag. I keep a gallon sized freezer bag and I just add the herbs as I go. Even things like carrot peels I'll put in there, and then I'll create a stock later, like a veggie stock or a veggie broth. The end of my Parmesan, for example, goes in there too, like the Parmesan rind. It's a great way to just reduce your waste.
Chuck Gaidica:
But when you're taking the herbs you're growing, are you literally just snipping a sprig and you're washing that off and then just freezing it as it it? You're not grinding it down and turning it into powder or doing any of that. You're literally just freezing them.
Shanthi Appelö:
Right. You're literally just freezing them. Of course, my intent is always to use them first. But if for whatever reason they don't get used, or even there are parts of it that don't get used, for example, maybe for my basil, I'm only using the leaf, I'm not using the stem so much, then I'll throw the stem in my freezer bag.
Chuck Gaidica:
I think we know this because we've chatted so many times, eating locally is a big thing for you. I mean, if you've got a farmer's market or somebody's growing at a farm stand, that's something that rises to the top of your list?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. Of course, that cuts down on that transportation aspect of things, and of course, it supports our local economy too, and that's always something really nice to think about. Something too when we think about eating sustainably is that, of course, it does influence these greenhouse gas emissions.
But something else that's really great about it is when we eat more sustainably, typically that means eating more plant-based and plant-based diets are tied to so many benefits. I know we've done a podcast specifically on plant-based diets and the great benefits they can have for us. Not only is it good for our earth and good for our planet, but it's good for our bodies too.
Chuck Gaidica:
When you're looking at good examples for us for sustainable foods that we can incorporate in our diets, what would you suggest? What are good places to start?
Shanthi Appelö:
What's interesting is that if we focus more on plant-based proteins, that's the best place to start. Pulses and legumes are going to be great for this. We've seen in research that eating more vegetarian or more plant-based can reduce your individual carbon footprint. Something that I found, it was a statistic by U of M, and they said that if you shift one vegetarian meal per week, it could save the equivalent of driving 1,100 miles.
Chuck Gaidica:
What?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, so that's for a year. If you just shift that one day a week, so meatless Mondays, I think that's a great example of how something little that could lead to big results. Another interesting statistic that they shared was that if you eliminate the transport of food for one year, it could save the greenhouse gas equivalent of driving 1,000 miles. When we think about all these little pieces that add up to big things, that's a good way to think. Now, when it comes to meat, I tend to think of it as something that I consume less regularly. It's a special time food, like it's a celebration food, rather than thinking of it as something I eat every day.
For example, if you're someone who really likes consuming protein that is animal-based, you're just used to it, it doesn't feel like a real meal unless there's chicken or fish or beef on the plate, if you're someone like that, it can be a really good idea to just shift the type of animal protein that you're using. For example, the greenhouse gas emissions of beef is seven times greater than that of chicken. Just a simple switch from something that requires less land and doesn't have that methane from having the natural dietary process happen.
Chuck Gaidica:
The expelling of methane. Yes.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yes. That's something to think about. There's some really great resources out there if you're just curious about comparing certain foods to others and things that you regularly consume in your own household. For example, The Washington Post recently posted a tool, it's called Which food is Better for the Planet, and then you can input, for example, comparing chicken to salmon and you can look at it from different metrics. For example, greenhouse gas emissions or overall environmental impact.
Chuck Gaidica:
You know what I find interesting? A couple of things that have come up that it really is what's old is new again. I mean, for maybe millennia, there have been certain faith traditions that practice fasting from meat, and then it became in more modern times fasting from meat on Friday. That's an old is new again idea. Here we are in 2023, and you're also talking about this portion of meat not being the centerpiece.
We're talking a generation ago with my grandmother, when our grandparents grew up, and maybe still to this day, well, I know in many parts of the world, you can't afford a big giant hunk of meat. The centerpiece is a little piece of meat in the pot, which creates the beef barley soup. Everybody gets some bread because back in the day, just like you're saying, it was a once in a while thing. It was because they couldn't afford the side of beef.
Shanthi Appelö:
Couldn't afford, or maybe it was that... Now it's so easy just to go to the store and pick up beef. It's just beautifully packaged. It's cut for you. It's done, this and that. When we think about before it was easy to get to the grocery store, I mean, people had to walk long distances to get to a store. And then, of course, the cost of it all.
Chuck Gaidica:
There's something else you said I think is very profound, and that is the notion that sometimes, and I have to admit I fall into this like all of us, we think that just as an individual, the impact is not going to be that great. But when you start talking about one meal a week, one switch to a vegetarian meal or leaning that way, I lean toward vegetarian stuff, collectively, those numbers could become staggering as far as our impact, potential impact anyway.
Shanthi Appelö:
I think a good statistic here that puts that into perspective is if we look at a household's carbon footprint, food on average accounts for 10 to 30% of that. If we just think about all the actions we take, 10 to 30% of that is food. Now, barriers. I think people will think like, okay, it might be hard to eat more sustainably because sometimes we think of the cost and things like that. If we reframe our mindset around the cost, I think focusing on things like pulses and legumes is a great place to start.
Because if we think of it from the perspective of, for example, I want to have a plant-based burger and we might go and buy the alternatives to plant-based or regular burgers, those can come with a pretty hefty price tag. So then instead reframing our mindset around it like, okay, I can make black bean burgers, and they are much more affordable. One can of black beans is around $1, depending on where you buy it, and that can produce quite a bit of protein and fullness for your family.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, and a lot of fiber. We've talked about this in the past, a lot of the alternative meat products are highly processed. You don't think of them that way, and then there's a lot that goes into the processing. I don't just mean all the stuff they throw in there to make it look like a burger. I mean, it's just all the steps you're talking about have to be included there.
Shanthi Appelö:
I think another thing that we can think of whenever we go to the grocery store is the packaging, the more packaging, the more plastic, the more not only waste, but also greenhouse gas emissions. Something that we can do if we're comparing one brand to another is just note, oh, this has more paper, or this has more recyclable components than the packaging of this product, and make the decision accordingly, of course, factoring in cost and things like that. Another thing you can do is when you go to the grocery store, come prepared with your reusable bags instead of bagging it.
I've noticed that some stores when I go shopping and I forget my reusable bags, the paper bags aren't as accessible as the plastic bags. Sometimes you just have to ask, "Hey, do you have paper bags?" And oftentimes they will, and then later you can then recycle the paper bags, which is nice. Just little things like that. Because I know sometimes at the grocery stores, the baggers are so helpful and they're trying to bag it based on like, okay, well, I don't want this to break for you, so they're going to use a lot of plastic bags. Bringing the bags is the best option.
Chuck Gaidica:
Using those bags, I mean, sometimes they have fun stuff printed on them, but I think when you get in that habit... And really part of this is just getting in a habit and sometimes it's a brand new habit. But once you do something for a while, we're going to talk about that in an upcoming episode, once you do that couple, three, four or five times, maybe you have to do it for a month to get that muscle memory, but however long it takes, all of a sudden that's just your thing and you don't think about it anymore.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yes. Yes. In my household, we always have these three pretty big bags that stack, that have a tough bottom. We love those for grocery shopping, but they stack and they are in the trunk at all times in my car so that I always have access to them if I have a random grocery trip. Like you said, it's the muscle memory. After I unload the groceries, they go straight back in the car.
Chuck Gaidica:
Isn't it funny that the big box discount grocery type stores, I mean, the huge ones, they don't even offer you bags. I mean, if you want to box your own or just take it all. What we'll keep is some of those bags, you're speaking of the chill type bags in case it's a refrigerated item, because we've got a couple other things to go run for. But that's really interesting to me because think of the volume of bags they've cut back on.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, definitely. If someone's just trying to ease into sustainable eating, maybe it's not something that you've thought about before or maybe it just seems like a big task, you're like, "Well, I'm not going to just stop eating beef," I think setting small goals is a good idea, maybe if you tend to eat more or not so plant-based, you make a goal to have at least one plant-based family meal per week. We talked about the impact that can have. You can just watch the packaging like we just talked about. Buy local when you can, especially when we're in this season.
When it's either summer or fall, there's so much to take advantage of. Shop local when you can, or even grow it yourself if you can. Just something I like to do that may sound a little silly, but in the beginning of the summer season, I'll always buy one thing of green onions, and then I cut off the greens, and then I just replant the base every time. You have green onions for the summer. Don't even have to start it yourself.
Chuck Gaidica:
Interesting. You've got a green thumb. I mean, you grow a lot of stuff and you know what you're up to.
Shanthi Appelö:
I have a small home with not a very big yard, and I grow a lot of things in pot, so it's possible. But no, I don't know about green thumb.
Chuck Gaidica:
Idea of one meal a week, I have to tell you how many times in my life I've eaten a vegetarian meal, and I don't know why, but it comes to mind, eggplant Parmesan. If you create a meal that's tasty, and I think that's part of the key here, so it's not cardboard lathered with something else, with veggies, if you create something tasty, how many times in your life have you said, "This is the most incredible meal? It's awesome. Where have I been with this one?" I've done that multiple times in my life.
I encourage myself, I try to, maybe we can encourage everybody else, go for the taste buds on these things too. Because once you hit a home run, your family will be like, "We want that one again."
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, and then you feel good. You feel good in your heart because you're like, oh, I'm doing something good for my health. I'm doing something good for the planet here. I think that's great. For me personally, I'm trying to explore tofu more. That's a very sustainable food, it being soy-based. I don't know if you're on the same journey. Trying different recipes out there and different ways to prepare tofu has been a really fun task.
Chuck Gaidica:
I've never put those two words together, exploring tofu, but maybe I'll add that to my vernacular now. That's pretty good. You want to wrap us up here with some great takeaways because there's so much good stuff in just this time?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. I think if you're new to the journey, like we said, just take small steps, set goals, meal prep if you haven't, just start with reusable bags, and you'll realize how much easier it becomes when it becomes that muscle memory.
Chuck Gaidica:
Baby step your way in. I think it's a great idea. Well, thanks. Thanks for a lot of wisdom.
Shanthi Appelö:
Thanks, Chuck.
Chuck Gaidica:
Shanthi Appelö joining us again here on A Healthier Michigan Podcast. We're glad you're with us. Thanks for joining us. It's A Healthier Michigan Podcast brought to you by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. If you like the show, you want to know more, you can check us out on our newly refreshed website. Go to ahealthiermichigan.org/podcast. That's where you can find us. It's got a cool new look, some new features.
You can leave us a review or rating on Apple Podcast or Spotify. We're now launched on YouTube, so you can find us there. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. You can get all the old episodes, all the new episodes, and take them with you as you go on your smartphone, take them on your tablet. Be sure to subscribe to us as well on Apple Podcast or Spotify or your favorite podcast app. I'm Chuck Gaidica, thanks for being with us. Stay well.
Shanthi Appelö:
Hello. Thanks for having me.
Chuck Gaidica:
Oh, good to have you back. This is an interesting topic, and I know it's one that you think about a lot. In recent years, there's been this focus on the impact that various sources from energy to the car that we drive and all kinds of things impact our environment. But even food has been said to have an impact. If we want to sustainably reduce the effects of our carbon footprint, our impact on the environment, how do we go about this relative to food?
Shanthi Appelö:
I think the first thing to understand here is that there are so many different steps from our food being grown to it hitting our plate. Basically, us as humans do a lot of different things that produce these greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide, methane. As a result, these gases trap the sun's heat. Now, when we think about food, it is grown. It is then processed. It is transported. It is distributed. It's prepared. It's then consumed. And then unfortunately, a lot of it's wasted.
There are so many different steps in food production that then lead to these greenhouse gases. For example, just the production itself is 68% of food emissions and then the transportation is 5%. You can understand how different processes have a different impact. According to the United Nations, a third of all human caused greenhouse gases are linked to food.
Chuck Gaidica:
That includes everything, transportation, packaging, I mean, machines that have to be built to run that stuff, right? I mean, it's everything.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. Everything is about one-third of all the greenhouse gas emissions that's related to food. Then we think about, well, we eat food every day, and so what can we do on an individual level? I think some of the things that we have to understand first is how different foods impact the environment. For example, the biggest piece of our greenhouse gas emissions related to food are going to actually be agriculture and land use. For example, beef, meat in general, so red meat is going to have the biggest greenhouse gas emissions when we compare them to other foods.
For example, we're maybe comparing them to nuts, we're comparing them to chicken, things like that. First of all, just the fact that cattle has to feed off of things and then digest it, that can produce methane like their byproducts. We use fertilizers whenever we are growing crops for the beef to then feed off of, and that uses nitrous oxide, which can then produce greenhouse gas emissions. And then there's a lot of other things like when you're burning the crop residues and a lot of things that I think are difficult to wrap our head around. But anyways, when it comes down to it, certain foods do have this greater impact.
Chuck Gaidica:
And yet, I mean, we have to point out that this isn't an anti-beef or anti-anything. We're trying to impart some interesting information. Because if transportation, if some of this other production stuff that's tied to free-range, versus free-range, where we literally can drive somewhere right now and go get tomatoes or we can actually walk to a farmer's market and get them, we actually have the ability to cut down on some of the stuff that contributes to the process, right?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, and actually food waste. I think that is one of the biggest things that we can do in our own households. It's interesting because we understand that there's so much of our food that we buy. We have all these great ideas. We go to the store, we buy all these foods, and then it sits in our fridge and it goes to waste. It's really sad that that happens. But food waste across the globe, that's 8% of all greenhouse gas emissions.
If we can think about ways to just cut down on waste, that's huge. It's interesting because we may not understand how food waste relates to the equation, but basically whenever we dispose of foods, it goes to landfills and then it sits there in rots and it produces methane, which is a greenhouse gas. In that way, it can impact our carbon footprint.
Chuck Gaidica:
It seems like even this time of the year as we're heading into fall, there's still lots of great harvest that are coming. This notion of getting involved in something as simple as freezing forward. I mean, my brother grows crazy amounts of blueberries and now he's getting a crazy crop of peaches. Well, they're already freezing 10 pound bags of stuff just to think about the next winter, whatever the season is they want to open it up and make whatever they're going to make.
I think for me personally, that's been a big eyeopener for cutting back on waste. When something is in harvest, it's actually in season and I like it. Let's get it and let's figure out a way to keep it so that I can open up something and use it in the middle of February.
Shanthi Appelö:
There are a lot of things that we can think of too that are just small. For example, when we go to the grocery store or we go to the farmer's market and we buy the ugly produce because a lot of people don't want to eat the ugly produce, and then it goes to waste.
Chuck Gaidica:
You mean an apple with a scar on it, right?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. You can do things like that. And then meal prepping can be a huge piece of this. You have a meal plan. You go grocery shop based on that meal plan, and you then execute based on that meal plan so that you are using all your ingredients. I think too, like you were saying, just freezing ahead, you are paying attention to what's in your pantry, what's in your fridge. You're noticing, okay, this is starting to go bad. Either I'm going to use it or I'm going to go ahead and freeze it now, because in five days it'll be too late, or even maybe tomorrow it'll be too late.
Just thinking about things like that. One of my favorite tips for herbs, I love buying herbs, I grow a few herbs, but they go bad pretty quickly once you've picked them. One of the things that I like to do is put them all in a freezer bag. I keep a gallon sized freezer bag and I just add the herbs as I go. Even things like carrot peels I'll put in there, and then I'll create a stock later, like a veggie stock or a veggie broth. The end of my Parmesan, for example, goes in there too, like the Parmesan rind. It's a great way to just reduce your waste.
Chuck Gaidica:
But when you're taking the herbs you're growing, are you literally just snipping a sprig and you're washing that off and then just freezing it as it it? You're not grinding it down and turning it into powder or doing any of that. You're literally just freezing them.
Shanthi Appelö:
Right. You're literally just freezing them. Of course, my intent is always to use them first. But if for whatever reason they don't get used, or even there are parts of it that don't get used, for example, maybe for my basil, I'm only using the leaf, I'm not using the stem so much, then I'll throw the stem in my freezer bag.
Chuck Gaidica:
I think we know this because we've chatted so many times, eating locally is a big thing for you. I mean, if you've got a farmer's market or somebody's growing at a farm stand, that's something that rises to the top of your list?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. Of course, that cuts down on that transportation aspect of things, and of course, it supports our local economy too, and that's always something really nice to think about. Something too when we think about eating sustainably is that, of course, it does influence these greenhouse gas emissions.
But something else that's really great about it is when we eat more sustainably, typically that means eating more plant-based and plant-based diets are tied to so many benefits. I know we've done a podcast specifically on plant-based diets and the great benefits they can have for us. Not only is it good for our earth and good for our planet, but it's good for our bodies too.
Chuck Gaidica:
When you're looking at good examples for us for sustainable foods that we can incorporate in our diets, what would you suggest? What are good places to start?
Shanthi Appelö:
What's interesting is that if we focus more on plant-based proteins, that's the best place to start. Pulses and legumes are going to be great for this. We've seen in research that eating more vegetarian or more plant-based can reduce your individual carbon footprint. Something that I found, it was a statistic by U of M, and they said that if you shift one vegetarian meal per week, it could save the equivalent of driving 1,100 miles.
Chuck Gaidica:
What?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, so that's for a year. If you just shift that one day a week, so meatless Mondays, I think that's a great example of how something little that could lead to big results. Another interesting statistic that they shared was that if you eliminate the transport of food for one year, it could save the greenhouse gas equivalent of driving 1,000 miles. When we think about all these little pieces that add up to big things, that's a good way to think. Now, when it comes to meat, I tend to think of it as something that I consume less regularly. It's a special time food, like it's a celebration food, rather than thinking of it as something I eat every day.
For example, if you're someone who really likes consuming protein that is animal-based, you're just used to it, it doesn't feel like a real meal unless there's chicken or fish or beef on the plate, if you're someone like that, it can be a really good idea to just shift the type of animal protein that you're using. For example, the greenhouse gas emissions of beef is seven times greater than that of chicken. Just a simple switch from something that requires less land and doesn't have that methane from having the natural dietary process happen.
Chuck Gaidica:
The expelling of methane. Yes.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yes. That's something to think about. There's some really great resources out there if you're just curious about comparing certain foods to others and things that you regularly consume in your own household. For example, The Washington Post recently posted a tool, it's called Which food is Better for the Planet, and then you can input, for example, comparing chicken to salmon and you can look at it from different metrics. For example, greenhouse gas emissions or overall environmental impact.
Chuck Gaidica:
You know what I find interesting? A couple of things that have come up that it really is what's old is new again. I mean, for maybe millennia, there have been certain faith traditions that practice fasting from meat, and then it became in more modern times fasting from meat on Friday. That's an old is new again idea. Here we are in 2023, and you're also talking about this portion of meat not being the centerpiece.
We're talking a generation ago with my grandmother, when our grandparents grew up, and maybe still to this day, well, I know in many parts of the world, you can't afford a big giant hunk of meat. The centerpiece is a little piece of meat in the pot, which creates the beef barley soup. Everybody gets some bread because back in the day, just like you're saying, it was a once in a while thing. It was because they couldn't afford the side of beef.
Shanthi Appelö:
Couldn't afford, or maybe it was that... Now it's so easy just to go to the store and pick up beef. It's just beautifully packaged. It's cut for you. It's done, this and that. When we think about before it was easy to get to the grocery store, I mean, people had to walk long distances to get to a store. And then, of course, the cost of it all.
Chuck Gaidica:
There's something else you said I think is very profound, and that is the notion that sometimes, and I have to admit I fall into this like all of us, we think that just as an individual, the impact is not going to be that great. But when you start talking about one meal a week, one switch to a vegetarian meal or leaning that way, I lean toward vegetarian stuff, collectively, those numbers could become staggering as far as our impact, potential impact anyway.
Shanthi Appelö:
I think a good statistic here that puts that into perspective is if we look at a household's carbon footprint, food on average accounts for 10 to 30% of that. If we just think about all the actions we take, 10 to 30% of that is food. Now, barriers. I think people will think like, okay, it might be hard to eat more sustainably because sometimes we think of the cost and things like that. If we reframe our mindset around the cost, I think focusing on things like pulses and legumes is a great place to start.
Because if we think of it from the perspective of, for example, I want to have a plant-based burger and we might go and buy the alternatives to plant-based or regular burgers, those can come with a pretty hefty price tag. So then instead reframing our mindset around it like, okay, I can make black bean burgers, and they are much more affordable. One can of black beans is around $1, depending on where you buy it, and that can produce quite a bit of protein and fullness for your family.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, and a lot of fiber. We've talked about this in the past, a lot of the alternative meat products are highly processed. You don't think of them that way, and then there's a lot that goes into the processing. I don't just mean all the stuff they throw in there to make it look like a burger. I mean, it's just all the steps you're talking about have to be included there.
Shanthi Appelö:
I think another thing that we can think of whenever we go to the grocery store is the packaging, the more packaging, the more plastic, the more not only waste, but also greenhouse gas emissions. Something that we can do if we're comparing one brand to another is just note, oh, this has more paper, or this has more recyclable components than the packaging of this product, and make the decision accordingly, of course, factoring in cost and things like that. Another thing you can do is when you go to the grocery store, come prepared with your reusable bags instead of bagging it.
I've noticed that some stores when I go shopping and I forget my reusable bags, the paper bags aren't as accessible as the plastic bags. Sometimes you just have to ask, "Hey, do you have paper bags?" And oftentimes they will, and then later you can then recycle the paper bags, which is nice. Just little things like that. Because I know sometimes at the grocery stores, the baggers are so helpful and they're trying to bag it based on like, okay, well, I don't want this to break for you, so they're going to use a lot of plastic bags. Bringing the bags is the best option.
Chuck Gaidica:
Using those bags, I mean, sometimes they have fun stuff printed on them, but I think when you get in that habit... And really part of this is just getting in a habit and sometimes it's a brand new habit. But once you do something for a while, we're going to talk about that in an upcoming episode, once you do that couple, three, four or five times, maybe you have to do it for a month to get that muscle memory, but however long it takes, all of a sudden that's just your thing and you don't think about it anymore.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yes. Yes. In my household, we always have these three pretty big bags that stack, that have a tough bottom. We love those for grocery shopping, but they stack and they are in the trunk at all times in my car so that I always have access to them if I have a random grocery trip. Like you said, it's the muscle memory. After I unload the groceries, they go straight back in the car.
Chuck Gaidica:
Isn't it funny that the big box discount grocery type stores, I mean, the huge ones, they don't even offer you bags. I mean, if you want to box your own or just take it all. What we'll keep is some of those bags, you're speaking of the chill type bags in case it's a refrigerated item, because we've got a couple other things to go run for. But that's really interesting to me because think of the volume of bags they've cut back on.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, definitely. If someone's just trying to ease into sustainable eating, maybe it's not something that you've thought about before or maybe it just seems like a big task, you're like, "Well, I'm not going to just stop eating beef," I think setting small goals is a good idea, maybe if you tend to eat more or not so plant-based, you make a goal to have at least one plant-based family meal per week. We talked about the impact that can have. You can just watch the packaging like we just talked about. Buy local when you can, especially when we're in this season.
When it's either summer or fall, there's so much to take advantage of. Shop local when you can, or even grow it yourself if you can. Just something I like to do that may sound a little silly, but in the beginning of the summer season, I'll always buy one thing of green onions, and then I cut off the greens, and then I just replant the base every time. You have green onions for the summer. Don't even have to start it yourself.
Chuck Gaidica:
Interesting. You've got a green thumb. I mean, you grow a lot of stuff and you know what you're up to.
Shanthi Appelö:
I have a small home with not a very big yard, and I grow a lot of things in pot, so it's possible. But no, I don't know about green thumb.
Chuck Gaidica:
Idea of one meal a week, I have to tell you how many times in my life I've eaten a vegetarian meal, and I don't know why, but it comes to mind, eggplant Parmesan. If you create a meal that's tasty, and I think that's part of the key here, so it's not cardboard lathered with something else, with veggies, if you create something tasty, how many times in your life have you said, "This is the most incredible meal? It's awesome. Where have I been with this one?" I've done that multiple times in my life.
I encourage myself, I try to, maybe we can encourage everybody else, go for the taste buds on these things too. Because once you hit a home run, your family will be like, "We want that one again."
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, and then you feel good. You feel good in your heart because you're like, oh, I'm doing something good for my health. I'm doing something good for the planet here. I think that's great. For me personally, I'm trying to explore tofu more. That's a very sustainable food, it being soy-based. I don't know if you're on the same journey. Trying different recipes out there and different ways to prepare tofu has been a really fun task.
Chuck Gaidica:
I've never put those two words together, exploring tofu, but maybe I'll add that to my vernacular now. That's pretty good. You want to wrap us up here with some great takeaways because there's so much good stuff in just this time?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. I think if you're new to the journey, like we said, just take small steps, set goals, meal prep if you haven't, just start with reusable bags, and you'll realize how much easier it becomes when it becomes that muscle memory.
Chuck Gaidica:
Baby step your way in. I think it's a great idea. Well, thanks. Thanks for a lot of wisdom.
Shanthi Appelö:
Thanks, Chuck.
Chuck Gaidica:
Shanthi Appelö joining us again here on A Healthier Michigan Podcast. We're glad you're with us. Thanks for joining us. It's A Healthier Michigan Podcast brought to you by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. If you like the show, you want to know more, you can check us out on our newly refreshed website. Go to ahealthiermichigan.org/podcast. That's where you can find us. It's got a cool new look, some new features.
You can leave us a review or rating on Apple Podcast or Spotify. We're now launched on YouTube, so you can find us there. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. You can get all the old episodes, all the new episodes, and take them with you as you go on your smartphone, take them on your tablet. Be sure to subscribe to us as well on Apple Podcast or Spotify or your favorite podcast app. I'm Chuck Gaidica, thanks for being with us. Stay well.
